Aladdin Central Messageboard

[imekitty]

Oh, I definitely like Robin more! It's just that I've become more...familiar...? with Dan over the years due to the TV series and Kingdom Hearts. I like his interpretation of Genie, and I just find that his voice is easier to mimic in my head than Robin's. But there's no doubt that Robin IS Genie. I mean, the role was created specifically for him, so how couldn't he be? But I think Dan does (er, did) a great job at making the role his own.

It is certainly blasphemous! Especially since that would leave Eric for Jasmine, and I am sure Eric would be boring for her, haha. It's not Eric's fault, though. He wasn't developed enough.

My guess is that the Skumps song would have changed the tone too much. They really wanted it to be a dark movie, and that song was probably too light-hearted for them to fit in. I really wanted to like that movie, but it was just kind of...weird...and actually pretty boring. I sure hope that if they make a Jafar movie that they won't try to make it dark, too. I also hope that they don't take anything from Twisted because while I think it's freakin' hilarious, I don't really like how they made Aladdin the antagonist.

[Fez_Head]

I totally understand the Dan thing. I remember when I watched Return of Jafar a few years ago since watching it as a little kid, I was so unimpressed with Genie. Now that I've watched quite a few episodes of the tv series with Dan as Genie, I can accept it a bit more. However, I still am, and always will be, a die-hard Robin as Genie fan. Like you said, it was a role made just for him.

I actually read a fanfiction which was an Aladdin/The Little Mermaid crossover where Al ended up with Ariel and Jasmine with Eric. Apparently in this story, Jasmine and Eric had been friends when they were little and Al and Ariel met once long ago, but it just.. I don't know. It just wasn't right since there was one point in the story when Jasmine was all like "Yeah Aladdin, when us four were captured and Eric and I were put in the same cell, we kinda hooked up." Umm, when did Disney turn into Degrassi with everyone hooking up at the worst possible times?

I totally understand that Skumps would have changed the tone, but I just love it so much. I thought the movie was ok, like I could accept certain points, but I lost some respect for Maleficent's characterization. She's the Mistress of Evil and sends frost to kill Flora's flowers because she can. She doesn't need some deep emotional backstory of why she turned evil. She just is. Also, she is the dragon. Drag-on. Neither her nor that bird do that tongue thing. (God, I love Mushu. He has such amazing quotes )

I actually wouldn't mind a dark Jafar backstory. I feel like his would have intriguing political affairs, deceptive backstabbing, and dimly lit hallways. Seriously, that palace needs more lighting.

I love Twisted too! Prince Achmed was amazing ("That tiger broke my Woody!" *gasps from servants and audience* "Now how am I supposed to go to Cowboy Camp?"). Sometimes it was funny with Aladdin being the antagonist in certain scenes, but I agree that sometimes it just felt like too much. It does make you wonder how they would do it though. Stefan isn't even the main character and his characterization change perturbed me immensely. How would Aladdin turn out? Hmm...
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams

[imekitty]

Well, you kind of have to accept it, especially now...but there was no way they could've gotten Robin to voice the series, and Dan was forbidden from trying to actually impersonate Robin, so he really had to make the role his own. I think he did great with that limitation, and I like the more subdued, less obnoxious Genie in the series. He made a good side character whereas in the third movie, Robin's obnoxiousness didn't work as well with his side character status.

I haven't read a whole lot of Aladdin fanfiction. I've tried, but I find that they aren't usually that interesting. I do usually love fanfiction, but with Aladdin, the canon stuff is not only quite sufficient but is actually far better than most fanfiction out there. I haven't looked at any crossovers, but I'm not surprised that a fan writer would rush their desired pairing that quickly. It tends to happen when you're forcing two characters together rather than letting them organically happen.

That Toy Story 2 reference made me laugh so hard! I think Toy Story might be my second favorite movie of all time. I love it to death!

[Fez_Head]

Yeah, back when I lacked knowledge of anything remotely Aladdin, I had no idea about the Robin Williams feud with Disney, which is why I was so confused hearing a different voice come out of the beloved character. Also, I think I was in a state of shock from the low budget animation of Return of Jafar to really think straight. Never watch that movie right after seeing Aladdin. Bad idea. Very bad idea.

I've read a few Aladdin fan fiction, but none of it was really well written. Most of the time the authors spell the characters' names wrong (instant turn off for me) or they just rewrite the original story with "a new OC whose presence might just change everything." This character didn't, but thanks for playing. Although, to be fair, I've never written fan fiction, so what do I know.

Toy Story is amazing. That's one animated movie which has really great sequels.
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams

[imekitty]

Even without the feud, I doubt that they could've afforded Robin for the series. He also would've taken over the show, and while I love Genie, he didn't have much more room to grow as a character after the first movie. I was far more interested in seeing Aladdin, Jasmine, and Iago grow, so I loved episodes that were focused on them. The few that focused on Genie weren't as interesting to me. Maybe Robin would've made them more interesting, though (or at least more obnoxious).

Hmm...I think I've tried thinking of some Aladdin fanfiction, but I found it to be very difficult which is why I never actually wrote anything down. For some reason, Aladdin doesn't lend itself well to fanfiction. I think that's why the TV series was constantly introducing new characters. Even the writers seemed to have trouble writing stories just for the original gang. I would've loved more episodes about Aladdin trying to be sultan, though. I wish they explored that more.

[Fez_Head]

Wow, I am so so sorry that I went total MIA on this thread. I had a ton of stuff to do (I had to meet with a potential undergrad thesis supervisor, which was pretty crazy).

Oh yeah. Even without the feud that happened, they would not have been able to afford Robin for the TV series. I mean, it would have been nice since he is the original voice of Genie, but I could never see that happening. I also really liked those episodes that showed the altering characterization of other characters, especially Aladdin. I like that one episode, The Return of Malcho, because Aladdin learns what it's like to be the sultan and have to make some pretty heavy duty decisions, especially knowing about the consequences. I also would have loved to see more episodes like this too, but hey, beggars can't be choosers.

I think Aladdin has the potential to make a great fanfic. It has a lot of fascinating characters, I just think that the main problems I find with its fanfic is the lack of coherent characterization of established characters and OCs who just annoy me. Seriously, rewriting the movie with everyone but one is not acceptable. I saw one like that, all about Aladdin and his sister Kate. Kate? I like the name, don't get me wrong, but seriously? Kate?!
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams

[imekitty]

Sorry...I myself went back to my lurking ways for a bit.

Return of Malcho is one of my favorites. Aladdin getting all panicked is adorable. "What's wrong?! What's happening?! Guards, emergency!"

Any fanfic where Aladdin has a sibling is probably a self-insert...

[Meesh]

[imekitty]

You know...there really aren't too many moments of growth in the series for any of the characters, at least not as many as there could've been. The writers kept introducing new characters and antagonists instead of just focusing on the original cast, so there were only a few of those moments where the characters seemed to progress in any way at all. I remember reading something from one of the writers (I think?) that they had a difficult time with the characters since they had supposedly already gone through their character arcs in the first movie, but there was definitely more they could've done. Like I said, I would've loved to see more of Aladdin trying to be sultan, going from only having to care for himself to caring for everyone in Agrabah. I would've loved to see more about the relationship between him and Razoul considering their history, plus Razoul actually tried to kill Aladdin. I would've liked more about Iago for sure, struggling with his new company, his changing perspectives on things, whatever else. Jasmine could've definitely used more moments as well considering she's been confined to a certain life and setting her whole life.

Perhaps these things would've been too "deep" or "dark" for a children's TV series, though.

What I think was done well in the series was the little struggles and bumps in Aladdin and Jasmine's relationship. I like how they actually would bicker at times or straight up get angry with each other, but they are always able to reconcile in healthy and realistic ways. I think their relationship feels very genuine and dynamic. OTP 4EVA!!!!!

Also, Aladdin definitely does develop throughout the series, but not in very obvious ways. It's clear that he's a lot more mature by the time we get to KoT than he was in the first movie, but to pinpoint exactly when he matures throughout the series is kind of tough. Maybe next time I watch the series, I'll look for those moments.

[Fez_Head]

Gotta love them self-insert fanfics about good ol' Kate! My reaction was the same as Meesh's when I first read the story's synopsis. Personally, I think it's dumb if you are merely going to rewrite the entire movie (or movies) with the only change being one character. It's so lazy, especially when the dialogue is word-for-word. Thanks fanfic writer, I can seriously just watch the movie and avoid your whole story altogether.

I don't know if the personal growth question was merely for imekitty, but I would love to join in if that's ok. I agree with imekitty that there were a few significant moments, but I think it being a Saturday morning cartoon really prevented it from delving deep into the characterization of our beloved heroes. The episodes, although there is somewhat of a chronology (has this been figured out yet? I know there are threads upon threads hiding in this message board where everyone tried to make a coherent timeline of the trilogy? ) are supposed to be that a child could watch any episode (minus Seems Like Old Crimes) in any order and not have to have previous knowledge of the episode before it. I know that we all agree that The Return of Malcho is a really great growth moment, especially for Aladdin, but I have a few more subtle ones I always liked. Like Genie Hunt, the episode where Genie is being hunted down by the Muhktar for his past master, Al-Gebraic? It has a rather depressing one regarding Aladdin's mortality and Genie's immortality, that eventually Al will die. It's a rather dark theme to discuss in a children's show, but it does shed light on the importance of their friendship for both Genie and Aladdin. I always love how Al stands up for Genie in this episode and says that they are best friends. Daww!

I also think that That Stinking Feeling is a great episode demonstrating Jasmine and Aladdin's relationship. I personally like them as a couple because they act like a couple. They care about each other, are affectionate with one another, but they also act immature and downright stupid sometimes. I know some people aren't big fans of Uncouthma, but the way that they use him to further their own agenda was awful, and the way that both Jasmine and Aladdin realize this shows the importance they value in their relationship. Yes, they come from two totally different worlds, but the fact that they continue to learn more about each other is important for both of their characters.

Last point (I swear), I also really think that the episode with Merk (the name escapes me now, but it's the one where they're chasing a sand shark and Jasmine demonstrates her badassery by hurling harpoons everywhere) when Aladdin contemplates still going after the treasure, even after the sand shark leaves Agrabah. You can see him struggling because he wants to be able to provide for Jasmine, but he doesn't want to mooch off of the Sultan. After seeing King of Thieves, I can see so much of Cassim in this scene, but I'm glad that it doesn't get that far. No matter what, Aladdin will put Jasmine and Agrabah first before his own needs. That's some good characterization if I ever saw any.

Sorry this was so long. I saw this question posted a few days ago and it's got me thinking. Also, this forum has been pretty dead for a while, so it will be nice to talk Aladdin with people who actually care about it. Mom and Dad tuned me out a long time ago.

P.S. Imekitty, I think that thing you read was posted on here because I swear that I've read something similar. Did it also discuss the Hercules tv show and why the writers (weren't they the same as the ones who wrote for Aladdin?) chose to set the Hercules show to when he was a teenager? That way he wouldn't have already gone through his major character arc?
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams

[imekitty]

I do vaguely recall a line about Genie being immortal and Aladdin not being so...or I think it was indirect, right? Like he was talking about his past masters. More about that would've really been interesting. I do wonder what Genie will do when Aladdin finally dies. Will he watch after his kids? And their kids? And so on...?

That episode is Raiders of the Lost Shark. That is definitely an interesting point that, again, isn't delved into as much as it could've been (about Aladdin not wanting to just accept money from the sultan, I mean). Even Razoul at times seems to think that that is all Aladdin cares about.

And yes, right, it was mentioned in relation to the Hercules series. The link was posted here on Aladdin Central: http://www.emuck.com:3000/archive/stones.html

What I also love about the series is that Aladdin really is a very flawed protagonist. He says such goofy things without really thinking, things that straight up piss Jasmine off. He's just too cute; I can't stand it sometimes. XD

[Fez_Head]

I haven't seen the episode Genie Hunt in a while, but I vaguely remember something being mentioned about Aladdin's mortality. I've always gotten the impression that Genie might stay around the future generations, but honestly, I have no idea. I guess that would be pretty hard, seeing all of these people and knowing that they will eventually leave you behind. Poor Genie. That's got to be pretty tough. At least he will have Carpet.

Yes, Raiders of the Lost Shark (I love all of the Indiana Jones similarities in the tetralogy). I agree, I think Aladdin's conflicting emotions should have been developed further, but I do applaud them for making note of it. I think this is a significant moment for Aladdin, especially for his own maturation. I've always loved how flawed Aladdin is, (don't even get me started on how much I ADORE the colour symbolism of his character) especially since Disney always likes to make these perfectly perfect characters who are so unrealistic sometimes, and this episode really emphasizes this. I just wish, like you, that they would have gone further into it.

I'm so curious about Razoul. I feel like he has this really interesting backstory and I want to know it now.
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"You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it." - Robin Williams

[Meesh]

Regarding Aladdin and Jasmine's relationship, I also think of "That Stinking Feeling" first. "Eye of the Beholder" too, when Jasmine (and the audience) learns the crazy extent to which Aladdin loves her. She's also a bit over-jealous in "Elemental, My Dear Jasmine," which she learns to overcome. I like to think Sadira came later, which might explain how she doesn't completely flip over some of the things Sadira does. I think her jealousy in "Dune Quixote" is very fair and handled reasonably well.

Plenty of episodes feature Jasmine becoming adventurous and useful in combat, to the point where Mozenrath takes her seriously as a threat. There is one episode where she basically hints that she's over it all though. I can't remember which. She says something like, "I could do without the constant monsters."

I feel like everybody grows in "Garden of Evil," even if Aladdin learns a little too late.

There's also "Riders Redux," where Jasmine learns to be her own person and to step up as an authoritative figure. You could say "The Ethereal" too, but I feel like her love for her people was there all along, especially after her growth in "Do the Rat Thing."

I also always enjoy "The Spice is Right," when Aladdin learns to forgive himself. There are a couple of episodes where Aladdin learns humility, despite being unbeatable and revered ("Getting the Bugs Out," "When Chaos Comes Calling").

There's also "My Fair Aladdin," where Aladdin struggles to balance his street cred with the expectation of him to be proper and well-groomed.

For some episodes, I feel like the writers regressed the characters to conjure character growth, like "Air Feathered Friends."

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Nothing beats the first and third movies though. Gah, I gush when Aladdin leaves Cassim to take responsibility for his actions in Agrabah. The third movie really shows that he and Jasmine are ready for a family.

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I'm going to stop there. I'm a nerd. But I guess we all are here
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[Meesh]

[imekitty]

That was definitely the forerunner of those moments I was thinking of. He says other funny things, too, but that one is particularly hilarious. :b

And all of those moments are great examples, but I just wish there were more. I crave dynamic character development, and the series was more action-oriented over character-oriented than I would've liked. But I agree that that moment in KoT when Aladdin stands up to Cassim is an amazing one, and I really wish there were more moments as poignant as that in the TV series. But again, perhaps that would be too much for a children's show.

NERDS! ALL OF US!