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Princess Amber
Prince/Princess
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 230
Location: Where I am
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 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: Kinda Random but... |
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Okay, I know this is a little random but can anyone picture Al and Jas singing Christmas songs like "A Christmas to Remember", "Winter Wonderland", "Sleigh Ride", or "Let it Snow"? I see them singing A Christmas to Remember more than anything else.
(Please delete if necessary.) |
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Nez
Eccentric Papyrus Jockey
Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Bellevue, Ne
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Actually, they would celebrating Ramadan.
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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Well, not them, but Genie, definitely. 
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"If only I could believe you. Perhaps I can! After all... you do bear the name of a flower." -- Arbutus |
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Princess Amber
Prince/Princess
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 230
Location: Where I am
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree. Genie would. But just them singing those songs. That's what I can picture. |
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Princess Lydia
Elemental
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Defentliy Genie would be singing christmas songs! I don't know about Aladdin and Jasmine though. |
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Lennox Macbeth
Agrabah Citizen
Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Mozenrath's Bed
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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I think Calluna and Nez meant that it's difficult to picture Aladdin and Jasmine singing Christmas carols because Christmas carols didn't exist in their time OR place. Genie, on the other hand, jumps around in time and on the globe, so he would run across them at some point.
http://www.moviemistakes.com/ points out some of the places where the historical accuracy of the Aladdin movie (and subsequently the series) was compromised in favor of political correctness, humor or better comprehension for children.
If you consider that...
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| Disney created the fictitious Agrabah for the film because the story is traditionally set in Baghdad. This was done because of the notority of Iraq (whose capital is Baghdad) in the Persian Gulf War a year before the film's release. |
and
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| The Magic Carpet Rids passes the Pyramids of Giza, which have already been stripped of the smooth limestone sheathing, as they appear today. This wasn't done until the 9th century by treasure seeking Arabs. The movie takes place sometime before 1 AD. |
and
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| This movie takes place sometime before the year one AD. When Abu rescues Aladdin from the shackles in the dungeon, he picks a padlock of type and style invented after the 15th century. |
and
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| The pants everyone wears are turkish pants, except for Aladdin's. His are a style worn in Thailand. |
...it's a 100% chance that NO ONE in the series, except the "semi-phenomenal, nearly cosmic" genie(s) would have even heard of Christianity, let alone Christmas carols, which weren't adopted even in their earliest forms until several hundred years after Christ's death.
Baghdad, now currently the capital of Iraq, would have been under Muslim control for most of the time span that the "Arabian Nights" tales would have covered. In past centuries, it would have been inside the boundaries of the growing and shinking Persian Empire, was run through at one time by Alexander the Great, was run across by the Mongol Horde, was part of Mesopotamia, was part of Assyria, but was NEVER part of the Christian world.
The last factual error I posted I might quibble on, depending on the exact time that the story took place. Baghdad is on the Silk Road, and Silk Road cities (which also include Buhkara and Samarkand) were widely diverse and had many features different than their local cultural counterparts, because of the heavy amount of trade taking place along the road. Also, the Turks travelled the road almost as extensively as the Arabs and the Chinese - in fact, after the Persian Empire receeded from what is today Iraq, Israel, Syria, Turkey, etc, Baghdad was inside the boundaries of the Ottoman Empire - ruled, of course, by the Ottoman Turks.
That's what makes it hard for me to conceive any of the characters except Genie celebrating Christmas in ANY way - there would have been 0 contact for any others. |
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Princess Amber
Prince/Princess
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 230
Location: Where I am
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, nevermind.  |
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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Eh?  I meant that it's unlikely because they're probably Muslims, not because Christianity didn't exist. If they are Muslims, then there's no way - as your source says - that Aladdin could possibly take place before 1AD, because Islam only dates back to about 600AD. (Sorry, pet peeve of mine; I'm always seeing people who think Islam is older than Christianity. What is it, "My religion is right, therefore it must be the newest? )
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| Disney created the fictitious Agrabah for the film because the story is traditionally set in Baghdad. This was done because of the notority of Iraq (whose capital is Baghdad) in the Persian Gulf War a year before the film's release. |
Well, the *original* was set in China, but, yes, an earlier draft was set in Baghdad. I've never seen proof it was changed because of the war, though.
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| The Magic Carpet Rids passes the Pyramids of Giza, which have already been stripped of the smooth limestone sheathing, as they appear today. This wasn't done until the 9th century by treasure seeking Arabs. The movie takes place sometime before 1 AD. |
*stabs* 
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| This movie takes place sometime before the year one AD. When Abu rescues Aladdin from the shackles in the dungeon, he picks a padlock of type and style invented after the 15th century. |
*stabbitystabstab*
Now, I know that the word "allah" in Arabic literally just means "the god", and the sultan could have been referring to any god, not necissarily the Islamic god, but the fact that all other evidence points to a later date seems to me like they're probably Muslims. Sultan and Jasmine definitely, the others probably.
(Actually, if Iago was a Christian [or at least raised as one  ] it would make sense to me. I remember him reciting the Lord's Prayer that one time, and making references to the seven deadly sins... One of his catchphrases is "Jeez", for Christ's sake. )
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"If only I could believe you. Perhaps I can! After all... you do bear the name of a flower." -- Arbutus |
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Lennox Macbeth
Agrabah Citizen
Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Mozenrath's Bed
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Calluna wrote: |
| (Actually, if Iago was a Christian [or at least raised as one ] it would make sense to me. I remember him reciting the Lord's Prayer that one time, and making references to the seven deadly sins... One of his catchphrases is "Jeez", for Christ's sake. ) |
I've always attributed that to being simplified for an audience of American children. Dubbers do the same thing to a lot of anime series that come across when there are cultural references the kids might not understand, or when something is deemed "inappropriate" for American kids.
:: Recalls the horribly butchered version of Rurouni Kenshin she just watched last night on Cartoon Network, wherein they noticeably removed Jin-e's cigarette and cut Jin-e killing himself (you see his eyes go wide, and then you see nothing but Kenshin and Kaoru until Jin-e is no longer referenced). ::
That's also one of the reasons that historically-oriented Disney movies such as Aladdin, Mulan, Pocahontas, etc aren't as "gritty" in appearance as they should be - kids in America don't (as a whole) know mud, blood and sweat as a part of everyday life. There's no need for kids to know that starving peasants can temporarily ease the pains of hunger by smoking opium, or that life was often hard and short for all except a select few.
Notice how radically the movie Alexander has failed in the theatres - Americans want gold and glory, not historical accuracy.
:: Looks around ::
 Oops.
:: Gets down off her soapbox :: |
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Lennox Macbeth
Agrabah Citizen
Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Mozenrath's Bed
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Calluna wrote: |
| Eh? I meant that it's unlikely because they're probably Muslims, not because Christianity didn't exist. If they are Muslims, then there's no way - as your source says - that Aladdin could possibly take place before 1AD, because Islam only dates back to about 600AD. (Sorry, pet peeve of mine; I'm always seeing people who think Islam is older than Christianity. What is it, "My religion is right, therefore it must be the newest? ) |
Oops, should have clarified that too.
There's a good essay at http://www.arabiannights.org/intro.html that details the known history of the "Arabian Nights" tales, and all of them are well after the Muslim period - circa 900CE or later. It also supports what you said here:
| Quote: |
| Now, I know that the word "allah" in Arabic literally just means "the god", and the sultan could have been referring to any god, not necissarily the Islamic god, but the fact that all other evidence points to a later date seems to me like they're probably Muslims. Sultan and Jasmine definitely, the others probably. |
Books and texts written during this time would have taken the Muslim slant, just as stories done during our current time in the United States often take a Christian slant (as referenced in my above soapbox), if for no other reason than the fact that it's culturally familiar and acceptable.
Clearer version of what I should have said: If the story of Aladdin is supposed to take place in the time that "Arabian Nights" was written, then they would likely be living in a Muslim community.
If it took place EARLIER than 1AD, however, as the source I quoted above states, then it would have been one of the other cultures I mentioned above:
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| the growing and shinking Persian Empire, was run through at one time by Alexander the Great, was run across by the Mongol Horde, was part of Mesopotamia, was part of Assyria, |
As a side note, I often saw the presence of figures such as Mirage, the sprites, etc, as a way of trying to drag the story further back in time than the movie suggested. Mirage, in fact, has a lot of parallels with the Egyptian goddess Sekhmet. http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/sekhmet2.htm
EDIT: One other addition, from my own observations rather that the MovieMistakes site (since that only covers the movie):
The artefacts drawn in "The Lost City of the Sun" appear to be a sad imitation of early Mesopotamian work. The hieroglyphics on the wall Mozenrath walks past may be a vague attempt at pre-cuneiform writing from Mesopotamia. (Note that while attempts are made in the Aladdin movie to suggest Arabic is the written language, none of the words actually ARE Arabic words, and people read left to right like we do, instead of right to left. Just another minor oversight in the design work. )
Compare photos from Mesopotamia http://www.archaeologyphotos.com/Mesopotamia/pages/IQAGA005.htm with images like these:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/cliodhnaglen/lostcityofthesun.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/cliodhnaglen/lostcityofthesun2.jpg
(Just ignore Mozey-kun in them, that's one of the eps he doesn't look the greatest in. ) |
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Princess Amber
Prince/Princess
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 230
Location: Where I am
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Just wondering, but if some people in B.C lived for like centuries, would Al and Jas live for like centuries too?  |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11856
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Lennox Macbeth wrote: |
That's also one of the reasons that historically-oriented Disney movies such as Aladdin, Mulan, Pocahontas, etc aren't as "gritty" in appearance as they should be - kids in America don't (as a whole) know mud, blood and sweat as a part of everyday life. |
Ooooh yeah. I would love to see the looks on the kids faces when they see that Aladdin had the princess slip a potion in the magicians wine cup, and then he cut off his head when he was knocked out. Or even what hte magician did to Fatima  |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11856
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Lennox Macbeth wrote: |
| The artefacts drawn in "The Lost City of the Sun" appear to be a sad imitation of early Mesopotamian work. The hieroglyphics on the wall Mozenrath walks past may be a vague attempt at pre-cuneiform writing from Mesopotamia. (Note that while attempts are made in the Aladdin movie to suggest Arabic is the written language, none of the words actually ARE Arabic words, and people read left to right like we do, instead of right to left. Just another minor oversight in the design work. ) |
Yeah, I think they mentioned on the commentary track that they didn't want to use real Arabic at the chance that someone would read it and get something wrong out of it (Because you know someone would have found something wrong or made it that way ) But that part where Jafar is reading the scrolls bugs me just a tiny bit because of the whole right to left thing:? |
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xfkirsten
Royal Vizier
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 1309
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Princess Aurora wrote: |
| Just wondering, but if some people in B.C lived for like centuries, would Al and Jas live for like centuries too? |
Nope, not by the time that Aladdin takes place. The time that is said to have been is long before even the New Testament of the Christian Bible takes place, let alone 900 AD.
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I don't need intelligent drugs, because I don't know what they are. But I will put anything into my mouth that is given to me, whether it's supposed to go there or not. Because... I'm different. |
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Princess Amber
Prince/Princess
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 230
Location: Where I am
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| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh. |
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